As a member
of the Lagos State House of Assembly, Hon. Dayo Saka Fafunmi from Ifako/Ijaiye
Constituency 1 is not happy that the Speaker of the House, Rt. (Hon.) Adeyemi
Ikuforiji is being 'distracted' by the EFCC through prosecution over corruption
allegation.
Though he is
not pre-empting the outcome of the case in the court, the lawmaker believes
that Speaker is innocent as the allegations are baseless since members of the
House have passed vote of confidence on the Epe-born lawmaker.
Fafunmi, who
is the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee (Local) of the House, is also
not happy with what is happening in the local governments across the country,
especially in the North, where he said the people are being impoverished.
He is also
of the view that the merger of the opposition parties is good for the
development of the country as he insisted that the ruling party, the Peoples
Democratic Party (PDP) has not met the yearnings of the people.
The chieftain
of the Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) spoke extensively on many issues in
this interview he granted us recently.
There was a protest at the assembly that
you people abandoned your legislative duties, they said you ought to be sitting
even when the Speaker is in court over corruption allegation, how do you see
this
I think we
should appreciate the fact the parliament by virtue of relevant laws has right
to regulate its sittings. As such, we are mandated to have a minimum of 180
days of sitting in a year and as long as the house does not run foul of this, I
don't see any reason people should give the house a bad name. The house did not
adjourn sitting because of the Speaker. If you watch the sitting last Thursday,
it was only adjournment that was on the order paper because there was no
plenary issue to discuss and it shows the other thing we can do is to make good
use of the time by allowing the committees to do their jobs. We have standing
committees and they are meant to do their jobs, for instance the Committee on
Public Accounts (State) has been working, my committee too, Public Accounts
(Local) invited some councils and we have been working. I could not make it to
court this morning because when I got here they had gone and if I decided to go
around 9a.m, they would be on the way back before I get there. I and other
members of the House have passed a vote of confidence on the leadership of the
House and even the Speaker and no member has dissociated him/herself from the
vote of confidence. It is on that basis that members have decided to solidarise
with the Speaker, it is our personal decision. Some of our members went to Ogun State now because Osile Oke-Ona, Egba,
Ogun State, Oba Adedapo Tejuosho is celebrating his 75th birthday, is it
because of his birthday that the House adjourned. I usually respect people, but
when civil societies like Civil Society Network Against Corruption speak, I am
surprised, I respect the civil societies, but their duty is to criticize
constructively, once we err, they should put us on the right path. But when it
is the same society that now wants to generate chaos in the society, it leaves
much to be desired.
Part of the
problem is that the House has not educated the people enough to know that the
function of the legislators does not end on the floor of the House. What
happens on the floor is just about 20 to 30% of the activities of the
lawmakers. So, for anybody to say the House is not sitting because the Speaker
is going to court is unfair, we respect them; they should equally respect our
rights and privileges as a people.
Many people have said that the Speaker is
being persecuted because of some of his ambitions or but other feel it is one
of the ways to check our leaders, what do you say to this
A lot of
people don't even understand the case that is in court, I happened to be in
court one day, when the EFCC lawyer was making his own submission and he said
so many things to the extent that the Speaker collected money, but he collected
the money on behalf of members and they have not come out to deny that they
collected money from this man, it is not as if the money cannot be traced or
that he did not follow the normal procedure, so what is the bone of contention.
Most people don't understand, for you to establish a crime, there must be two
basic elements; physical and mental elements, now these basic elements, you
have to proof that when this man collected the money, he wanted to enrich
himself, but if you cannot prove the mental element, you have no case. That is why
you will hear some cases and you will be surprised, the position of the law is
what the judges use to determine the case. If you cannot prove it, the case
becomes watered down,
that is why
when judges give their verdicts, those of us, who are not learned in law
express surprise. The judge does not have right to make law but to interpret
the laws made by the lawmakers. I have read through all these allegations and I
have listened to the submission of the EFCC, I can tell you that they don't
have any case to make. What is even in the money laundering act, when the EFCC
lawyer said it in court, one of his colleagues cautioned him that he didn't
understand what money laundering is all about. It is only ill-gotten money that
can be laundered abroad, money that you can't trace its source or which is
gotten illegally. But this money, we were able to trace it; the lawmakers have
not denied that they collected money. Having established that, I want to say
that issue here is more of persecution against a trusted man. I have not seen
the release of the Civil Society Network Against Corruption, but what is being
done is more of persecution because this man has been the Speaker of the House
for over seven years or almost eight years, is it now that you want to say he stole
in his official capacity. He didn't collect the money personally.
Do you see the corruption case as a
set-back for the House
Yes, it has
affected the House, I must tell you, when the mind is not settled, you cannot
do much. A man, who goes to court and comes back home is the one that can
congratulate himself. If you are before a judge, anything can happen. No man
will have a settled mind before a judge even if you have a good case, until the
judge makes his pronouncement, the court has to decide. Nobody has control over
what the judge would say, so we are apprehensive, sometimes when we sit down,
we feel disturbed, I must say most members are disturbed, if it is something
else, they should iron it out, but if it is about money, I don't think there is
anything there.
Do you feel this is the best time to call
for immunity for speakers of houses of assembly like leaders of other arms of
government have
Part of what
we proposed is for the leadership of the legislative arm of government to have
immunity, it is not as if it will not make them answerable for offences
committed in office, but it will not serve as a distraction to them, while in
office. It would enable them concentrate fully because whatever decision that
is made on that seat was made in their capacity as speakers, not in personal
capacity. I would be part of those that would canvass for immunity for the
leaders, I am not asking for immunity. The heads of executive and judiciary
have immunity, why not the legislature.
Your party is part of the new merger of
parties, which became APC, and people are saying that the PDP still have the
majority. Do you see the PDP losing power to the opposition in 2015 with the
merger
For us to
have meaningful development, we have to strengthen the opposition. If I should
take you back a bit, during the UPN and NPN days, the NPN was controlling the
federal, while the south-western states are being controlled by the UPN,
another party; PRP was controlling parts of the north through Balarabe Musa and
Aminu Kano. We discovered that the PDP has always been using their size and
influence to suppress every voice of the opposition. If not for the leader of
our party, Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu, do you think there would be any
opposition party in Nigeria today? If everyone has taken to his/her heal and
kept quiet, what would have happened. If not for the likes of the National
Publicity Secretary of the ACN, Alhaji Lai Mohammed, who is ready, even on his
bed to criticize wrong actions of the government, what would have happened? It
is the voice of the opposition that would put the people in check and they
would say 'ah, these people are
watching us;
we cannot afford to do this.' That is the beauty of democracy, which is why the
merger of ACN, CPC, APGA, and ANPP would be a formidable team that would
challenge and possibly take over from the PDP. The most important thing is for
us to have a meeting of minds, people who are ready for the change, who are
ready to be agents of change. I have seen that in the leadership of the
parties, I have seen that in Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu and in people who
believe that Nigeria deserves a turn around. If the people buy into all these
programmes, it would be better. It is not the party that determines, who gets
to power because democracy is about people. If people are tired of bad
governance, if they are tired of not having light because if you don't have
electricity no nation can develop, then they would do something. Any nation
that refuses to have inter-modal train network can never develop, you can't
build enough roads that would meet the
demands of
the people, especially if you are over populated like Nigeria, there would
always be over-concentrating of human beings in a certain part of the country.
If there is a fast-moving train between Lagos and Ibadan, a lot of people would
build their houses along the corridor between Lagos and Ibadan and it would
lead to overall development. But because the roads are not safe, there is no
light people cannot come here to establish industries and there would be no
work. When there is no light, there won't be security, even if you want to use
camera, without light, it is impossible. We cannot continue to use the money we
get from the ground, from our natural resources and use it to import fuel, we
are not moving forward. We generate resources from the ground; use it to import
fuel and burn the fuel with generators for electricity. We should de-emphasise
the use of generators, let there be light everywhere and see a possible
turn-around of the nation.
The federal
government should remove power from the exclusive list to concurrent list, I
know that power is concurrent, but it is only generation, each state can
generate, but you cannot distribute except in an area not covered by the
national grid and tell me, which area is not covered by the grid in Lagos
State.
Eventually,
it is like putting a restriction on us, that is why Lagos cannot generate
light, so let us liberalise the sector.
You are in charge of the Committee on
Public Accounts (Local), what would you like to see in the proposed local
government reform and what have you been able to change in the system since you
became chairman of the committee
I have been
able to make the councils conform to the dictate of the law, that their books
must be updated and kept in a manner that the true position is reflected in
their books. The changes I expect in the local governments is to give them more
powers, they should be able to generate certain productivity that would
stimulate developments in their councils. More importantly, most of the
councils are being monitored by EFCC, it is not an aberration, but they should
be allowed to do their jobs. I have been able to let the chairmen know that the
money that comes to the councils is not their personal money, but money for
development. So, I criticize local governments, I chastise local governments,
compel those who do not meet 40% capital projects. But, as I speak to you,
Lagos local governments are doing well from what I can see. When you try to do
a compaism between them and their counterparts in the north, you will
appreciate the fact that this is where a semblance of true development is
taking place.
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