A member of the Lagos State House of Assembly, Hon. Dayo Saka Fafunmi
from Ifako/Ijaiye Constituency 1 is not happy that the Speaker of the House,
Rt. (Hon.) Adeyemi Ikuforiji is being persecuted by the opposition through
corruption allegation. Though he is not pre-empting the outcome of the case in the
court, the lawmaker believes that Speaker is innocent as the allegations are
baseless since members of the House have passed vote of confidence on the
Epe-born lawmaker.
The lawmaker, who is the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee
(Local) of the House, is also not happy with what is happening in the local
governments across the country, especially in the North, where he said the
people are being impoverished. He is also of the view that the merger of the
opposition parties is good for the development of the country as he insisted
that the ruling party, the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) has not met the
yearnings of the people.
There was a protest at the
assembly that you people abandoned your legislative duties, they said you ought
to be sitting even when the Speaker is in court over corruption allegation, how
do you see this?
I think we should appreciate the fact the parliament by virtue of
relevant laws has right to regulate its sittings. As such, we are mandated to
have a minimum of 180 days of sitting in a year and as long as the house does
not run foul of this, I don't see any reason people should give the house a bad
name. The house did not adjourn sitting because of the Speaker. If you watch
the sitting last Thursday, it was only adjournment that was on the order paper
because there was no plenary issue to discuss and it shows the other thing we
can do is to make good use of the time by allowing the committees to do their
jobs. We have standing committees and they are meant to do their jobs, for
instance the Committee on Public Accounts (State) has been working, my
committee too, Public Accounts (Local) invited some councils and we have been
working. I could not make it to court this morning because when I got here they
had gone and if I decided to go around 9a.m, they would be on the way back
before I get there. I and other members of the House have passed a vote of
confidence on the leadership of the House and even the Speaker and no member
has dissociated him/herself from the vote of confidence. It is on that basis
that members have decided to solidarise with the Speaker, it is our personal
decision. Some of our members went to
Ogun State now because Osile Oke-Ona, Egba, Ogun State, Oba Adedapo
Tejuosho is celebrating his 75th birthday, is it because of his birthday that
the House adjourned. I usually respect people, but when civil societies like
Civil Society Network Against Corruption speak, I am surprised, I respect the
civil societies, but their duty is to criticize constructively, once we err,
they should put us on the right path. But when it is the same society that now
wants to generate chaos in the society, it leaves much to be desired. Part of
the problem is that the House has not educated the people enough to know that
the function of the legislators does not end on the floor of the House. What
happens on the floor is just about 20 to 30% of the activities of the
lawmakers. So, for anybody to say the House is not sitting because the Speaker
is going to court is unfair, we respect them; they should equally respect our
rights and privileges as a people.
Many people have said that the
Speaker is being persecuted because of some of his ambitions or but other feel
it is one of the ways to check our leaders, what do you say to this?
A lot of people don't even understand the case that is in court, I
happened to be in court one day, when the EFCC lawyer was making his own
submission and he said so many things to the extent that the Speaker collected
money, but he collected the money on behalf of members and they have not come
out to deny that they collected money from this man, it is not as if the money
cannot be traced or that he did not follow the normal procedure, so what is the
bone of contention. Most people don't understand, for you to establish a crime,
there must be two basic elements; physical and mental elements, now these basic
elements, you have to proof that when this man collected the money, he wanted to
enrich himself, but if you cannot prove the mental element, you have no case.
That is why you will hear some cases and you will be surprised, the position of
the law is what the judges use to determine the case. If you cannot prove it,
the case becomes watered down, that is
why when judges give their verdicts, those of us, who are not learned in law
express surprise. The judge does not have right to make law but to interpret
the laws made by the lawmakers. I have read through all these allegations and I
have listened to the submission of the EFCC, I can tell you that they don't
have any case to make. What is even in the money laundering act, when the EFCC
lawyer said it in court, one of his colleagues cautioned him that he didn't
understand what money laundering is all about. It is only ill-gotten money that
can be laundered abroad, money that you can't trace its source or which is
gotten illegally. But this money, we were able to trace it; the lawmakers have
not denied that they collected money. Having established that, I want to say
that issue here is more of persecution against a trusted man. I have not seen
the release of the Civil Society Network Against Corruption, but what is being
done is more of persecution because this
man has been the Speaker of the House for over seven years or almost eight
years, is it now that you want to say he stole in his official capacity. He
didn't collect the money personally.
Do you see the corruption case
as a set-back for the House?
Yes, it has affected the House, I must tell you, when the mind is not
settled, you cannot do much. A man, who goes to court and comes back home is
the one that can congratulate himself. If you are before a judge, anything can
happen. No man will have a settled mind before a judge even if you have a good
case, until the judge makes his pronouncement, the court has to decide. Nobody
has control over what the judge would say, so we are apprehensive, sometimes
when we sit down, we feel disturbed, I must say most members are disturbed, if
it is something else, they should iron it out, but if it is about money, I
don't think there is anything there.
Do you feel this is the best
time to call for immunity for speakers of houses of assembly like leaders of
other arms of government have?
Part of what we proposed is for the leadership of the legislative arm
of government to have immunity, it is not as if it will not make them
answerable for offences committed in office, but it will not serve as a
distraction to them, while in office. It would enable them concentrate fully
because whatever decision that is made on that seat was made in their capacity
as speakers, not in personal capacity. I would be part of those that would
canvass for immunity for the leaders, I am not asking for immunity. The heads of
executive and judiciary have immunity, why not the legislature.
Your party is part of the new
merger of parties, which became APC, and people are saying that the PDP still
have the majority. Do you see the PDP losing power to the opposition in 2015
with the merger?
For us to have meaningful development, we have to strengthen the
opposition. If I should take you back a bit, during the UPN and NPN days, the
NPN was controlling the federal, while the south-western states are being
controlled by the UPN, another party; PRP was controlling parts of the north
through Balarabe Musa and Aminu Kano. We discovered that the PDP has always
been using their size and influence to suppress every voice of the opposition.
If not for the leader of our party, Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu, do you think
there would be any opposition party in Nigeria today? If everyone has taken to
his/her heal and kept quiet, what would have happened. If not for the likes of
the National Publicity Secretary of the ACN, Alhaji Lai Mohammed, who is ready,
even on his bed to criticize wrong actions of the government, what would have
happened? It is the voice of the opposition that would put the people in check
and they would say 'ah, these people are watching us; we cannot afford to do
this.' That is the beauty of democracy,
which is why the merger of ACN, CPC, APGA, and ANPP would be a
formidable team that would challenge and possibly take over from the PDP. The
most important thing is for us to have a meeting of minds, people who are ready
for the change, who are ready to be agents of change. I have seen that in the
leadership of the parties, I have seen that in Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu and in
people who believe that Nigeria deserves a turn around. If the people buy into
all these programmes, it would be better. It is not the party that determines,
who gets to power because democracy is about people. If people are tired of bad
governance, if they are tired of not having light because if you don't have
electricity no nation can develop, then they would do something. Any nation
that refuses to have inter-modal train network can never develop, you can't
build enough roads that would meet the
demands of the people, especially if you are over populated like
Nigeria, there would always be over-concentrating of human beings in a certain
part of the country. If there is a fast-moving train between Lagos and Ibadan,
a lot of people would build their houses along the corridor between Lagos and
Ibadan and it would lead to overall development. But because the roads are not
safe, there is no light people cannot come here to establish industries and
there would be no work. When there is no light, there won't be security, even
if you want to use camera, without light, it is impossible. We cannot continue
to use the money we get from the ground, from our natural resources and use it
to import fuel, we are not moving forward. We generate resources from the
ground; use it to import fuel and burn the fuel with generators for
electricity. We should de-emphasise the use of generators, let there be light
everywhere and see a possible turn-around of the nation.
The federal government should remove power from the exclusive list to
concurrent list, I know that power is concurrent, but it is only generation,
each state can generate, but you cannot distribute except in an area not
covered by the national grid and tell me, which area is not covered by the grid
in Lagos State.
Eventually, it is like putting a restriction on us, that is why Lagos
cannot generate light, so let us liberalise the sector.
You are in charge of the
Committee on Public Accounts (Local), what would you like to see in the
proposed local government reform and what have you been able to change in the
system since you became chairman of the committee?
I have been able to make the councils conform to the dictate of the
law, that their books must be updated and kept in a manner that the true
position is reflected in their books. The changes I expect in the local
governments is to give them more powers, they should be able to generate
certain productivity that would stimulate developments in their councils. More
importantly, most of the councils are being monitored by EFCC, it is not an
aberration, but they should be allowed to do their jobs. I have been able to
let the chairmen know that the money that comes to the councils is not their
personal money, but money for development. So, I criticize local governments, I
chastise local governments, compel those who do not meet 40% capital projects.
But, as I speak to you, Lagos local governments are doing well from what I can
see. When you try to do a compaism between them and their counterparts in the
north, you will appreciate the fact that
this is where a semblance of true development is taking place. Go to the north
and you will see that most councils are under lock and key, they only come in
when the allocation comes after that, they go back to their bases. I was posted
to do my national youth service in a council in the north, the day I reported
there, the council was under lock and key during the working hour of the week.
They told us to go to one area and see the people in-charge and when we got
there, we saw the Council Manager and they said the chairman was somewhere in
Kano. If you see how people live in poverty with disease such as ring worm,
guinea worm and this thing that comes out of their legs, poverty is very
prevalent there. These are councils that collect money from the federation
accounts, listed in the constitution, but because they have deliberately not educated
their people and did not allow them have access to western education so that
they cannot ask questions, that is why you cannot compare what is obtainable
there to what we have here, so Lagos is on the right track.
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